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May 19, 2024

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Location:

Orem,UT,USA

Member Since:

Apr 03, 2006

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Age Division Winner

Running Accomplishments:

HS/COLLEGE:
mile: 4:56, 2 mile: 10:21 (1978)
marathon: 2:52 (St. George 1982)
OLD MAN (20+ years later):
5K: 19:53 (Nestle/Art City Days 5K 2007)
10K: 39:55 (Spectrum 10K 2008)
half marathon: 1:26 (Hobble Creek 2008)
marathon: 3:07 (St. George 2007)

Short-Term Running Goals:

Get back to a BQ marathon time (currently 3:40).

Long-Term Running Goals:

Have fun running, keep fit, and fight middle age spread. Run consistently and injury free. Maintain a healthy balance between running and other life priorities. Encourage my ever-aging running buddies to keep running so we can continue to share runs on the trail instead of rocking chairs.

Personal:

Blessed to be married to Karen for 30 years. We have six children (4 daughters/2 sons) ages 16 to 30, and one wonderful granddaughter.

Favorite Blogs:

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Altra Instinct 1.5 Lifetime Miles: 83.50
Altra Lone Peak 1.5 Lifetime Miles: 21.80
Saucony Guide 7 Blue 2 Lifetime Miles: 376.95
Saucony Fastwitch 6 Lifetime Miles: 200.05
Saucony Guide 7 Black 1 Lifetime Miles: 271.15
Easy MilesThreshold MilesMarathon Pace MilesTrack speed mileageHill mileageTotal
1.000.005.000.000.006.00

It was a cold dark frosty morning at 5:45am. I ran alone. I ran a mile to warm up then picked up the pace. I averaged 7:36/mi for the next five miles. It seemed harder to get moving in the cold. The fastest mile was 6:47 on a downhill stretch on mile 3 and the slowest was 8:05 for the last mile. I intentionally slowed a little the last mile as I felt some minor tightness in my right calf. I didn't want to risk an injury at this point.

My sore big toe hurt a little the first mile or two (probably due to the cold and Saturday's run) but the pain gradually faded as I continued running until it nearly disappeared. I continue to believe it won't bother me at TOU this Saturday.

Advice Request:

I was advised today by an experienced TOU runner to shoot for a negative or even split, even though all the uphill miles are in the second half of the race. My race plan has been based on expending a consistent effort over the entire race (downhill faster, uphill slower) which would mean the "all downhill" first half would be faster than the "downhill/uphill/level" second half.

My question is: For my 3:20 goal, do I run a 7:38/mi pace (or even slower) the first 18 miles (downhill) and try to conserve energy to push the pace later in the race, or do I take advantage of the downhill to run a little faster, knowing the same effort will yield a slower pace on the hills later in the race?

Comments
From Sasha Pachev on Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 21:14:50

It depends on what kind of runner you are. I have never had luck in TOU or any other marathon shooting for a negative split, except St. George and the old version of DesNews, where the second half is signficantly faster than the first. I have tried a number of times - what happens was the first half was slow, and the second was slower.

Most runners, especially those that do not cosistently train at over 70 miles a week, will have a hard time negative splitting when running their true best. That said, overestimating your abilities and running the first half faster than you ought to will more often than not cause you more damage than underestimating your abilities and being too slow. One exception is when you develop so much endurance that you race the half and the full marathon at almost the same pace. Then it essentially becomes impossible for you to run the first half too fast.

In TOU the even effort split in the 3:20 range is probably the second half being 3 minutes slower than the first. This assumes you are decent downhill runner. In 2001 Dennis Simonaitis ran the first half in high 1:11, and the second in low 1:14 to get 2:25:59 for the total. Of all the top runners that have ever run TOU, Dennis has the best pacing in terms of even-splitting the marathon in my opinion.

From Paul on Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 00:18:21

Thanks for the input. They may change again before Saturday, but my current thoughts are to target a 7:30/mi pace for the downhill miles, 8:10/mi for the uphill miles, and 7:50/mi for the level miles. Figuring (roughly) 20 downhill miles, 4 uphill miles, and 2.2 level miles, that works out to be 1:38:15 for the first half, 1:41:39 for the second half (0:03:24 slower than the first), for a total time of 3:19:54.

I felt pretty comfortable averaging a 7:17/mi pace for the 10 downhill miles Saturday, and I've felt pretty comfortable running 7:40/mi on the level and 7:50/mi on some uphill miles on some shorter runs recently. I averaged 7:05/mi at the Hobble Creek half marathon nursing a sore calf. I'm confident that with a healthy, rested, hydrated, glycogen-filled body; and drawing energy from the volunteers, spectators, and other runners; and from the beautiful course and (hopefully) beautiful weather, I have real shot at meeting my goal, and really enjoying myself whether or not I achieve my goal. I'm really looking forward to Saturday.

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